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Re: Re: Woman worship leaders, bibilically correct ?

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Women in Worship Board
Title: Re: Re: Woman worship leaders, bibilically correct ?In Reply To
Posted By: JayTitle: Re: Woman worship leaders, bibilically correct ?
E-mail: jfrench321@hotmail.comPosted By: Brent
Date: 03/18/2003 at 02:00:11Date: 02/08/2003

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Brent, you really should study this matter on your own before you tell someone you're opinion based solely on what has been taught to you. The statement about women being silent is not in Acts - the two trouble spots about women in ministry are in I Corinthians and I Timothy. And you also should practice what you preach about not taking a "verse out of context". You're explanation is a little vague and very inaccurate. Tongues is a whole other topic altogether – (which is another topic I recommend you study up on).

Here’s a rough bases about those two trouble spots:
In I Corinthians 14:34-36, we see Paul giving answers to questions that we as the readers don't know but at best can figure out by reading the context and knowing Paul’s writing style. Close study reveals that Paul is addressing women in that congregation (church at Corinth) who are disrupting the service - probably asking too many questions or asking too loudly. If you study the culture and the history, you will see that women were not taught the Scriptures from an early age like the men were, and so were at a disadvantage in the church right off the bat. In layman's terms, he's most likely saying "tell them not to be loud or interupt, but to learn".

In I Timothy 2:10-15, Paul is referring to one particular woman who was teaching gnosticism (generally speaking, it’s the heresy that includes the myth that wisdom and life comes to men from women) that was running rapid in that time period in Ephesus - hence his explanation in vs. 13-15. A better way to translate verse 12 is, "I do not allow this woman to teach authority/origin over a man..", but either way, again, this was an isolated case based on the time, culture, and specific activities that was going on in that church. To say that those verses apply exactly as translated in English to all cases, all times, and all cultures is taking a very legalistic view of our awesome Lord Jesus who came to set the captives free, and who died so that there would be no difference between "Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female", for we are all one in Christ Jesus - God does not see as we see, He sees the heart. In fact, if you study all of Paul’s contribution to the Bible, you will find that he was actually a big promoter of women in ministry in general.

God is not unjust - our Lord is not mean or oppressive, He would never create a person with the abilities and the heart to serve Him, and give His Spiritual gifts to someone and then say "whoops – you can't use any of that, cause you happen to be female, (or African American, or Jewish)" no - God doesn't make mistakes. You need to read the entire Bible, inside and out, to see the redeeming work Christ did on the cross for women, as well as for all people!! I say "Praise God for freeing the women!", because the Body of Christ is only half as good without the women taking up their roles in ministry along side the men!!

You do realize that people who translate the Bible are doing it through the tainted lens of their current culture and upbringing, right? So, if a verse in the Bible really originally meant that there was this esteemed woman apostle, or woman pastor or minister, the group of people translating who saw that would say “of course there’s no such thing as a woman apostle, or a woman pastor – this must mean a man apostle… let’s call it a man”. And that’s the stuff we’re reading today in our English / American Bibles. Jesus came and did a mighty work and human beings have to go and be all stupid, putting up more walls to protect what they are comfortable with, but those are the kind of walls Christ came to tear down. How sad. If you don’t like women in ministry, you don’t want to be Christian then, because Christianity teaches that the Truth will set you free. Not free to sin, simply free to be all that God has called you to be as His child. There’s already too many other “religions” out there that limit women. When it comes to God’s Word, we must be responsible to study, to interpret it correctly (II Timothy 2:15). One good way to do that is to use Scripture to interpret Scripture. Nowhere in God’s Word does it say that “there is something wrong with female leadership of a church”. Men have said that, and women that are taught that say that… but God never said that. Judges 4 tells of Deborah, the female prophet, judge, and leader of the Israelite nation for a time. Earlier in Judges (2:16), we are told that it is God who raised up the judges for His people. So, if God is against women in leadership, why would he raise up a woman instead of man to be not only the governmental but spiritual leader of the people? You can say that was OT, but the Lord God Almighty doesn’t change – He stays the same yesterday, today, and forever. But, to go with that point: in the NT, you can find examples of women deacons, pastors, teachers, prophets, evangelists and there’s even at least one clear apostle – and all of these women are being recognized or recommend to others in the New Testament – The Samaritan woman; Mary, Martha, Phoebe, Pricilla, Junias, Stephanas just to name a few (Luke 8:2-3; John 4:28-42; Roman 16; I Corinthians 16:15-17; Philippians 4:3).

Today, God can use these two sections of Scripture to speak His heart to anyone who will listen. To me, this reaffirms the rest of God’s Word: God is a God of order, therefore, don’t let uneducated people disturb what the Holy Spirit is doing at church. All ministers need to meet the qualifications laid out in I Timothy 3 and all who serve in ministry must submit to one another and to the Holy Spirit. Don’t let anyone preach or teach anything other than Christ Jesus and the Word of God. And I’m sure there’s even more that God can speak to us through those Scriptures today. Every Word of God is infallible – it’s people who are imperfect. God’s Word is simple, when we read it how it was originally written. We should be encouraging our sisters in Christ to do whatever God has called them to, and help support and build them up in their ministries!!

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